Season 4, Ep. 6: Ductwork and Dressage with Benoure’s Grace Talamini

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(Transcript edited for clarity using AI)

Chris Fredericks: Joining me today is Grace Talamini. Am I saying that right? Grace Talamini?

Grace Talamini: Yes, Talamini.

Chris Fredericks: Thanks for coming on Empowered Owners.

Grace Talamini: Yeah, I’m glad to be here. I’m excited.

Chris Fredericks: That’s awesome. So I want to start us off with a fun question, a little bit out of nowhere. So what is dressage? For those who don’t know, what is dressage?

Grace Talamini: So dressage started from Roman cavalry. It’s basically, in simple terms, like horse ballet. It’s French. And there’s actually a video, I think, from the Tokyo Olympics with Snoop Dogg and Kevin Hart, and they’re talking about a horse crip-walking. That is what I do—not to that extent, obviously, but that’s what I do. So if you ever find that video, maybe you can include it somewhere around here. You can see the horse crip-walking in the video.

Chris Fredericks: I’m remembering that now. I think the wife and I were watching the Olympics when that happened. So dressage—it’s a Roman horse kind of dance thing, but not dance. Tell us more. So you do this? This is something you do?

Grace Talamini: Yes. So, you know, there’s a lot of different kinds of horseback riding. There’s racing, barrel racing, jumping. All those are very common. Not that many people know what dressage is. It’s slowly getting a little bit more common. It’s very, very common in Europe. They do a lot more horse stuff than we do over here. But it’s, I think, pretty therapeutic for horses. If you’re thinking about a jumping horse, a horse that jumps, usually they’re built more like a track runner. You know, they’re muscular, but they’re pretty lean. Whereas dressage horses, they’re very, very muscular, typically. So they’re more like bodybuilders, weightlifters, things like that.

And it’s basically about getting the horse to move in a way that’s harmonious with the horse and rider. You want to use very small signals for the horse. It’s just very hard to do. So that’s why a lot of people are like, “Oh, these horseback riders don’t do anything. They just sit there.” Well, obviously not, otherwise everybody would be doing it. But that’s kind of the whole point—is to make it look like you’re not doing anything. So that’s actually a really good compliment.

Chris Fredericks: So how did you get into dressage?

Grace Talamini: Well, my mom, when she was younger, she had three horses growing up. So I remember when she’d be picking me up from school or from soccer or something like that, I would just be asking a bunch of questions. She’d be telling me all these stories about how she had this one horse that they thought was in the circus because they’d be running through a field, and then they’d accidentally give it a cue and then the horse would be rearing up and they’d fall off. So it just knew all these tricks that they didn’t know about when they first got him. So I don’t know—something about that story really made me want to get on a horse.

Chris Fredericks: So when did you start riding horses, I guess?

Grace Talamini: Yeah, I started horseback riding when I was in second grade, when I was seven, in the spring. And at first it was really just like one lesson a week. You know, I remember when it was cold in the winter, below freezing—I’d be crying about having to get on this horse and not wanting to go to the barn, because not only are you riding the horse, but you also have to get it ready for your lesson and then take care of it after your lesson. And I’d be so cold my little toes felt like stumps because I just lost all feeling. But my mom still made me go because you have to take care of the animals, which I think really instilled good values for me just growing up and things like that.

I think, to be honest, a lot of kids should start working in barns because you can’t just call out—you have to take care of these animals.

Chris Fredericks: That’s real responsibility as a seven, eight, nine-year-old. Wow.

Grace Talamini: Yeah. Yep.

Chris Fredericks: So you still have horses today?

Grace Talamini: Yeah. Yeah. So I had never owned a horse until relatively recently. So I would have lessons on these horses, and then eventually, a couple of years went by and then I began leasing a horse. But it was even just leasing—it would really just be what they call half-leasing. So you’re able to ride the horse like three or maybe four days a week, but that’s it. And so you pay half of the bills, which is nice. You have half the responsibility, which is nice again when you’re younger.

And then I think in 2019 or ’20, it was right before Covid hit, we were looking at horses and I bought my horse that I have today. When he was three turning four, he’s going to be ten in—April or May, sorry. He’s going to be double digits. So I’m excited—a little bit sad, but it’s okay. But he’s been a handful. Well, it’s kind of to be expected. The ones that are better behaved or more trained than what I got him as are really expensive. So, you know, just riding the horses and trying to stay on the ones that you can get on are a lot more affordable.

Chris Fredericks: Wow. Interesting. So kind of a project in a sense.

Grace Talamini: Yes. Yeah. It’s kind of like, you know, if you’re buying a house—it’s a really nice house, it’s a turnkey house, it’s going to be a lot more expensive than a fixer-upper, for sure. And he is definitely a fixer-upper.

Chris Fredericks: But I’m sure he feels the love though.

Grace Talamini: Yeah, that’s the thing—he’s very naughty if I’m riding him. But as soon as I get off, then he’s like the sweetest, dog-like animal you’ve ever met.

Chris Fredericks: That’s sweet. Well, I’m sure we could talk about this for a half an hour at least.

Grace Talamini: Yes.

Chris Fredericks: But maybe let’s start with how we know each other. So you work for Benoure, which was a portfolio company of Empowered Ventures. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you ended up working at Benoure?

Grace Talamini: So I went to college for one year. When I was in college, I went to Cazenovia College, which is near Syracuse, New York. It’s pretty small—it’s a very small school. The graduating class would have been, I think, smaller than my high school class. But my first semester I did Equine Business Management, which was essentially like a double major for equine and business. And I already knew that I wasn’t going to want to own a horse barn or anything like that because it is very time consuming. Obviously you don’t get any days off, really, even during Christmas and things. So then I decided to switch to regular business, and I’m not a school person, and luckily I figured that out after the first year.

And then I moved back home. I was working at a doggy boarding facility that does daycare and boarding and grooming and all that stuff. And I started that in the summer. I worked there for several months, and while I was working there, I began working for a plumbing and heating company in Massachusetts for a woman who I had ridden several of her horses for. She just knew that they needed somebody to help with some mailing out, just small things like that at first, and she knew that I’d show up and do what needs to be done.

And then eventually I got into answering phones because one of the girls she had left—I forget what happened to her, but she had gone and they needed someone to fill that role. So about a month after I started there, I began answering the phones. I was really nervous. I didn’t even like ordering pizza, so I was really nervous about talking to customers and just the general public, I suppose. So that took a little bit of adjusting to, but I learned quick.

But then eventually I felt like I kind of needed a change of pace. I wanted to kind of get away from Massachusetts, just broaden my horizons a little bit. And so I ended up moving to Vermont with one of my friends who went to school at UVM because I felt like we would be good roommates. Not all of my friends—I don’t think I could be roommates with, love them to death, but being realistic, I felt like I could live with this one. So I moved up here. The first thing on my list before I even found an apartment was finding a place for my horse, of course. And then I found an apartment. And then I dealt with the job thing later.

I applied to Benoure. Obviously, I applied to a few other places, but Benoure really stood out to me. I really liked—I mean, you could just tell from the website that they looked more professional than a lot of the other places that I was looking into. I saw they had a 401(k)—not all plumbing companies even have a 401(k) match. They had more benefits than most other plumbing companies. So that’s really why I chose it. And I’m very glad that I did, because obviously the benefits have just been getting even better since I started.

Chris Fredericks: That’s great. So when you first moved—well, I have a few different questions I don’t want to lose. So back when you were at college, you said it was near Syracuse, New York, in Cazenovia, which is like probably 20 minutes, 20, 30 minutes from Syracuse. How did you decide or know you’re not, quote-unquote, “not a school person”? Like what made you make that decision?

Grace Talamini: I just—I don’t know, I wasn’t always the best at doing homework. I’m a very bad procrastinator for things like that. So I don’t know. I guess I just didn’t really apply myself, as my parents would say. I’m definitely more of a worker than a school person, like I said. So I think just—I’d be like, “Oh, I’ll do this homework a different day,” and then I would just push everything off to last minute and then I’d be overwhelmed, of course, because everything was due at the same time, when it shouldn’t have been because I should have been doing it all along. So just things like that. I’m just not a school person.

Chris Fredericks: But I imagine, you know, growing up with horses, you seem like someone who is not afraid of hard work at all. So I wonder how much does it have to do with doing things that motivate you? Just curious about the connection there.

Grace Talamini: Yes. I definitely think that—I don’t know, maybe it was just, I guess, delayed gratification that I wasn’t really all that interested in. I don’t really know. I wasn’t really a school person in high school, but it definitely got worse in college, probably because I was on my own to an extent. My parents were four hours away from me. And I also have pretty bad ADHD, so that didn’t help either. So just reading the material—I’ve always had issues, I guess, processing what I’m trying to comprehend. And I guess really the only way that I was able to process what I was reading is if I was taking very, very extensive notes, which again, is just added homework really for me.

Chris Fredericks: Sure. Yeah. And I went back to that because I think it’s not an uncommon experience for a lot of folks to come out of high school and maybe either give college a try or just not, because they don’t think of themselves as a school person. And I do feel like I’ve observed in some people that once they kind of get more connected to a career path, that’s where more motivation can actually come from to keep growing and developing as a person rather than thinking of it as just a school thing. So I’m curious if you resonate with that.

Grace Talamini: Yeah. And I just think that, honestly, I think the whole—especially working in the trades, I mean, I probably hear it more than other places too—but I just think college in general should be restructured completely. I don’t understand why we need to be taking all these general classes that don’t apply for the major that you’re doing. Why do you need to take an art history class when you’re planning on being an engineer? Or I guess maybe for that one, but it just seems like you’re putting all this money into classes and books and all these things that you don’t really need to do if you have a very set plan. So I also had kind of a hard time with that concept of things needing to make sense.

Chris Fredericks: Okay. So you end up at Benoure. Were you mostly just applying to other plumbing/HVAC type companies, or were you casting a wider net back then?

Grace Talamini: I guess it was a little bit more broad. I was applying to some plumbing wholesalers that I was familiar with in Massachusetts, and I was applying to a water filtration company. I really only applied to like four or five places. I applied to an auto body shop or something, or maybe a car dealership place. And just being younger and having a lot more experience, I think, than a lot of my peers, since they were in college, I think that definitely helped.

I was at a smaller company than where I’m working now, even though I’m still doing a lot of different things. I’m still involved in a lot of different things at Benoure. The company that I was at before, I was doing a whole bunch of different things, and that definitely helped me be able to apply those things to the jobs that I was looking into.

Chris Fredericks: Interesting. Did you enjoy that back at that previous job in Massachusetts? Like getting to do a lot of different things?

Grace Talamini: Yes and no. It was a little bit probably too much for my age. There was a lot of turnover—unexpected turnover—in the company. So I had no idea about anything about plumbing. I had no idea—there’s a lot of vocabulary that goes into it. I’m still learning a lot. But it was just very overwhelming at the time for me, which I think now if I were to go back, it would be different for sure, but it was just—there was a lot of pressure for my age at the other company as well.

Chris Fredericks: I’m sure you learned a lot, even though it was hard. What were you first hired in to Benoure to do? What was the job you were hired in to do?

Grace Talamini: It was essentially what I was doing before in Massachusetts, which was my main job was answering the phones. So coming to Benoure, I actually had less to do on my plate, which I was happy about. Beforehand I was ordering parts and things like that that I didn’t even know what the parts were for. So I was just trying to manage a lot. But yeah, I originally started at Benoure just answering the phone, scheduling appointments, which is still what I’m doing now, along with a bunch of other things as well that I do enjoy.

Chris Fredericks: What have you—that’s what I understand is it’s changed some since you started. So what are you doing now?

Grace Talamini: So I’m doing pretty much all of our social media. I think I’m the only one that’s doing it, besides some advertising, which I have done some advertising for. We’re looking for new trade guys, new plumbers and technicians and things. We have hired somebody else to add on to that, or I guess—I don’t know if that’s really the word. What is it called?

Chris Fredericks: Advertising, I guess?

Grace Talamini: We didn’t hire somebody brand new—we’re using somebody else’s service. Outsourcing. Yeah. We’re outsourcing to get some more ads to hire some more employees because, you know, the trades are really hard to fill spots for. But I do all of our LinkedIn stuff. I do our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, even TikTok, although I haven’t had enough time to be able to do all the TikToks that I’ve been wanting to. I still get a lot of notifications still, even from like the three or four videos that we’ve uploaded. So I think once I can get some more time for making TikToks or when the weather gets better, then I think that’ll help us out a lot as well.

Chris Fredericks: It seems like you’re having a lot of fun doing the social media.

Grace Talamini: Yes, I like it. It’s fun.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah. And I would imagine it’s really good for the business too, to get the word out.

Grace Talamini: Yes. And for the LinkedIn, the Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff, that is really for our customers. But I think the TikTok is really to try to bring in more technicians. And I don’t know if that part’s helping or not, but it’s more focused on bringing in more technicians. And I have seen people from different counties locally that have started following the Benoure page on TikTok. So I think it could be helping.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah. So what else have you gotten into? I think you’re doing a lot of other things at Benoure these days as well.

Grace Talamini: Yes. I was doing GPS tracking management, I suppose. I think Roger Carey or someone else has taken that over because we went into a different brand. I’m doing a lot of stuff for the ESOP, which is fun—can be challenging sometimes. But I’m the chairperson for our ESOP committee. So we do basically biweekly meetings. We’ve been able to organize all of that. It’s difficult trying to get input from the guys sometimes, even though they give their input to each other. We don’t always get it. So that’s a little bit difficult sometimes.

But we just had our ESOP barbecue. I think two weekends ago it was on the 10th of October, and that was a big hit. Every single week—well, the last two years it’s been a big hit. Gary actually had the idea of doing axe throwing, and the guys love that. So we’ll definitely have to do that again. Initially it was going to be a dunk tank, which I think they also really would have appreciated as well. But Gary was like, “It might be a little bit too cold for me to go in the water in October in Vermont.” And I would say that was probably a good idea that we vetoed that idea.

Chris Fredericks: So you started at Benoure, I think, about a year before Benoure joined Empowered Ventures, roughly. How have things been in the first year and a half of Benoure joining EV and becoming employee-owned?

Grace Talamini: I think there was quite a bit of hesitancy. There still is, naturally. Especially—Benoure was owned by multiple people. I guess it was owned by Brad’s dad, and then he sold the company to his four brothers, which he said in a previous podcast. So especially the people who have been here for that long of a time, there’s been quite a few changes in ownership and things like that. Obviously, since EV, that was completely different—completely different from all the other changes before. There haven’t been—there’s been some changes here and there. But I think because it’s been relatively slow changes, gradual, that’s probably been helping not make it so jarring of a transition.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah. That’s good. How are people feeling now that they’ve had their first statements come out and everything? Is it feeling real now or is it still kind of a wait-and-see?

Grace Talamini: I think it feels real. I think there’s always going to be skeptics. At least according to the other ESOP committees, they said it’s year two or the second statement that really makes people notice the difference—just being able to compare the first one to the second one. So once that’ll happen, it is already getting even more positive than before. I’ve heard the guys talking about it just in the shop, whether they know that I’m listening or not—that’s a different story—but I can hear some chatter about some positivity with the statement, so I’m really glad to hear about that.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah. What are you most proud of in your first few years at Benoure that you’ve worked on?

Grace Talamini: I don’t really know, to be honest. I haven’t really thought about that. That’s a good question. I am pretty proud of the ESOP committee. I do, like I said, do a lot of work with that. So it’s kind of like my baby right now. So I guess that’s pretty good. The ESOP committee has grown a lot since last year, even at the summit. We’ve changed so much. We have, I think, 11 people on the committee, maybe 11, 12 people on the committee, including myself, with a plan to get somebody else added on as well.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah. Makes sense. Well, from my vantage point, it’s been really fun and neat to see the work you do, especially with the ESOP committee and also the marketing. It’s really been fun to see—if anyone hasn’t seen it, the pictures and stuff you post on social are always really, really cool and interesting, I think. So just yeah, kudos.

Grace Talamini: Which ones do you like the most?

Chris Fredericks: I like all of them. But you know, the thing that everybody talks about when they see it that I also—it’s the very intricate work the guys have done.

Grace Talamini: Oh yeah. Like there’s one picture that Ryan Bouvier took. Oh my gosh. I have it pinned at the top of pretty much all of our social media because it just looks so cool.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah. So maybe explain a little bit—I imagine that’s something you feel working at Benoure, that the people take a lot of pride in the work that they do for it to look like that.

Grace Talamini: Yeah, they definitely do. Benoure has very high standards for the guys that come in. Even though there is definitely a labor shortage, they’re still actively upholding the standards that they have for all the houses that we do, because we do some very high-end houses. Even the ones that aren’t high-end, they should all look good. I don’t really know what’s up to code and what’s not, but I know if it looks good and I know if it looks bad. So just paying attention to some of those things—I really like when the guys send me pictures, I like to zoom in to see if there is anything that I see, and usually I don’t. And then I always double-check with Eric to make sure that everything looks good technically as well.

Chris Fredericks: Before you post it.

Grace Talamini: Yeah. Sure. When I get the chance. But that actually hasn’t been an issue in the past, so…

Chris Fredericks: Well, I would imagine in a company where the standards are high for the service and the product that’s being delivered, it tends to be the case that everyone else in the company has to have high standards too for their jobs. So it must speak really highly to you and the team at Benoure that you’re all able to support such a high-standards kind of environment.

Grace Talamini: Yeah. And I think—I forget what I was thinking about recently, but obviously being employee-owned, you want people to have a sense of employee ownership, which I do think that they have a sense of ownership, especially in the work that they do every single day. So they naturally have that. It’s just about transferring that a little bit more in a different sense for the employee ownership mindset.

Chris Fredericks: Yeah, yeah. Like you said, I’m sure it’s only a year in. I’m sure it’s taking hold. And as time goes on, I’m sure that’ll translate really, really nicely. Well, Grace, thank you. This has been fun. Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share another one of your passions with everyone. So why don’t we finish with what we call the Mount Rushmore segment? And for you, what topic did you choose for your Mount Rushmore?

Grace Talamini: I said Taylor Swift. I love Taylor Swift, but honestly don’t know if I can choose my favorites for anything. I just love them all. And my favorite things change constantly.

Chris Fredericks: Okay.

Grace Talamini: So I’m just curious what you think of that.

Chris Fredericks: You want to take a stab at it or do you just want to say no? It’s just anything and everything Taylor Swift?

Grace Talamini: I would say to broaden it a little bit more—my four favorite albums currently, I can’t do an order. In no particular order would be Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, and probably The Tortured Poets Department. I don’t know, it’s a toss-up between that one and her recent one, Live from a Showgirl. They’re just completely different, but they’re so good.

Chris Fredericks: That’s awesome. Have you been to a Taylor concert?

Grace Talamini: No. It’s gonna make me upset. No. They’re so expensive, especially now. I really wanted to. My friend and I were like—because the tickets in the US were like thousands of dollars just from people buying the tickets and then selling them for an outrageous price. You know, Ticketmaster is basically a monopoly. But if you go to Europe, then they’re significantly cheaper. So my friend and I at one point were talking about getting a flight to Europe, being there for maybe less than two days and then flying back because it was basically about the same amount, and we might as well make a trip of it. But yeah, never happened. Obviously.

Chris Fredericks: Maybe someday.

Grace Talamini: Yes. Maybe someday. I’m trying to save up for this new one coming out. I’m sure she’ll come out with a tour. So yes. Yep.

Chris Fredericks: That’s great. Grace, thank you so much for your time today. This has been a lot of fun.

Grace Talamini: Thank you so much for having me.